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Post muy interesante, razonado y discutido de sherdog.
A veces las discusiones en los foros sherdog son pateticas, todo el rato con "Ban" "Troll" "asshole"
etc, pero esta vez estan discutiendo de un tema muy interesante. Pq considerabamos (considermos)
mejores luchadores a los Pride's que a los UFC's.
Os pongo algunos razonamientos muy interesantes
Top 10 Reasons:
1. The size of the venues, the music, the ambiance, the production values and the hype were MILES above UFC... so the entire spectacle was seen as greater, grander, better. Subconsciously we all thought "if the show is better, the fighters must also be better!"
2. PRIDE always brought in new fighters with more traditionally respected records - judo champions, BJJ champions, olympic medalists etc - it was more about CREDENTIALS - we automatically respected this and assumed they were the best in the world... UFC was raising fighters from more unkown sources, bringing inexperienced TUF'ers in who at the time we all thought were a joke... but in reality these credentials limited the fighters, and the new breed of TUF'ers were being groomed into better pure MMA fighters, and would be the seeds of the generation to vanquish the PRIDE stars.
3. PRIDE favored technique... With the educated crowds in Japan, there was a greater emphasis on technique and grappling - where in truth now we can see that while the UFC fighters may have been often less tecnically sound, in pure MMA many of the 'technique' fighters would have just got the shit kicked out of them.
4. The OCTAGON: No stopping/restarting... no hanging out of the ropes/pressing up against the fence etc makes more a WAY more aggressive, non-stop fight. While PRIDE was often a contest of skills, UFC is a FIGHT!! Plus the dark cage atmosphere is way more psychologically intimidating imo... Its way rougher all around and I think you have to be slightly tougher to handle yourself in the Octagon.
5. Knees vs Elbows: Knees encourage you to pass guard, again the focus was on JJ to succeed in the ground game. ELBOWS encourage you to just hurt your opponent and beat them up more bluntly - again, advantage to the tougher, more pure fighters than to the technicians. -We assumed that higher technique = more deserving of rankings, and we underestimated the rougher game that the UFC fighters were developing.
6. PRIDE was better at growing fighters who had a distinct presence in the ring - from Nog to Saku to Silva to Hunt to Yoshida to Zuluzinho: Japan's love of comic book visuals and fighting was clear, and the matches appeared more epic and more visually interesting than watching 2 stereotypical American white fighters always duking it out... and I think we all sorta fell for it.
7. PRIDE was international - Nog (Brasil) Fedor (Russia) Saku (Japan) Hunt (New Zealand) Hendo (USA) - always a star-studded cross section of the entire globe... We obviously assumed that a cross section of the best in the WORLD > best in USA.
8. PRIDE lucked out on some EPIC fights and HL KO's that no promoter can plan for on his best day - from Nog/Herring to Nog/Sapp to Silva/Yoshida to Silva/Saku - there were just so many incredibly stunning images caught on the tape (and the open ring always made them look great too!) that it just romanticised the whole show to a level of godliness.
9. GP's. The PRIDE tournaments were often a who's who of the world's top fighters - HOW COULD YOU NOT use the forthcoming results as a trustworthy source to propose rankings? After any given PRIDE GP, most ranking lists were always immediately adjusted, with the final 4 boosted immediately to the top. In hindsight, this seems like perfectly reasonable logic and we should not be blamed for this.
But most importantly IMHO....
10. Most of the best of the PRIDE fighters at the time of PRIDE's closing were already past their days of glory, and a new level of skills was emerging AT THE SAME TIME. Silva had been champ for 6 years already, Herring had reached his peak long time ago, Nog is years late from being champ, Mirko likewise past his physical peak (he talked about retirement after the OWGP) and they probably were ready to start losing to younger fighters even if PRIDE has stayed.
MMA is an ever-evolving sport, and almost no fighter has been able to weather the tides for more than 1 or 2 eras. I believe for many years PRIDE fighters WERE the best in the world and the rankings may have been accurate. But nothing is constant, and it should have been seen as inevitable that once again the game would change; the old champions would die off and the new ones would once again bring the sport to a new level.
Y añado otros comentarios que han hecho
el ring es más pequeño lo q hace por cojones esten mas cerca
la puntuacion rollo boxeo hace q algunos luchadores ganen combates solo puntuando (rollo Liddell-Silva, ejemplo puesto por el forero)
Las tarjetas amarillas (penas economicas) favorecen la accion en el suelo
Hay luchadores q triunfan con unas reglas (Chute boxe en Pride) y otros con otras (Hughues, TQ, Miletich's en UFC) debido por ejemplo a los stomps/soccers/knees on 4 y otros con jaula+codos+ausencia rodillas en 4, soccers y stomps
Excesiva presencia de wrestlers y pocos especialistas en sumisión.
UFC has easier access to better wrestlers.UFC lacks international talent therefore, Judokas, BJJers, & Kickboxers.NSAC rules favor Wrestling.The Cage favors Wrestling
A veces las discusiones en los foros sherdog son pateticas, todo el rato con "Ban" "Troll" "asshole"
etc, pero esta vez estan discutiendo de un tema muy interesante. Pq considerabamos (considermos)
mejores luchadores a los Pride's que a los UFC's.
Os pongo algunos razonamientos muy interesantes
Top 10 Reasons:
1. The size of the venues, the music, the ambiance, the production values and the hype were MILES above UFC... so the entire spectacle was seen as greater, grander, better. Subconsciously we all thought "if the show is better, the fighters must also be better!"
2. PRIDE always brought in new fighters with more traditionally respected records - judo champions, BJJ champions, olympic medalists etc - it was more about CREDENTIALS - we automatically respected this and assumed they were the best in the world... UFC was raising fighters from more unkown sources, bringing inexperienced TUF'ers in who at the time we all thought were a joke... but in reality these credentials limited the fighters, and the new breed of TUF'ers were being groomed into better pure MMA fighters, and would be the seeds of the generation to vanquish the PRIDE stars.
3. PRIDE favored technique... With the educated crowds in Japan, there was a greater emphasis on technique and grappling - where in truth now we can see that while the UFC fighters may have been often less tecnically sound, in pure MMA many of the 'technique' fighters would have just got the shit kicked out of them.
4. The OCTAGON: No stopping/restarting... no hanging out of the ropes/pressing up against the fence etc makes more a WAY more aggressive, non-stop fight. While PRIDE was often a contest of skills, UFC is a FIGHT!! Plus the dark cage atmosphere is way more psychologically intimidating imo... Its way rougher all around and I think you have to be slightly tougher to handle yourself in the Octagon.
5. Knees vs Elbows: Knees encourage you to pass guard, again the focus was on JJ to succeed in the ground game. ELBOWS encourage you to just hurt your opponent and beat them up more bluntly - again, advantage to the tougher, more pure fighters than to the technicians. -We assumed that higher technique = more deserving of rankings, and we underestimated the rougher game that the UFC fighters were developing.
6. PRIDE was better at growing fighters who had a distinct presence in the ring - from Nog to Saku to Silva to Hunt to Yoshida to Zuluzinho: Japan's love of comic book visuals and fighting was clear, and the matches appeared more epic and more visually interesting than watching 2 stereotypical American white fighters always duking it out... and I think we all sorta fell for it.
7. PRIDE was international - Nog (Brasil) Fedor (Russia) Saku (Japan) Hunt (New Zealand) Hendo (USA) - always a star-studded cross section of the entire globe... We obviously assumed that a cross section of the best in the WORLD > best in USA.
8. PRIDE lucked out on some EPIC fights and HL KO's that no promoter can plan for on his best day - from Nog/Herring to Nog/Sapp to Silva/Yoshida to Silva/Saku - there were just so many incredibly stunning images caught on the tape (and the open ring always made them look great too!) that it just romanticised the whole show to a level of godliness.
9. GP's. The PRIDE tournaments were often a who's who of the world's top fighters - HOW COULD YOU NOT use the forthcoming results as a trustworthy source to propose rankings? After any given PRIDE GP, most ranking lists were always immediately adjusted, with the final 4 boosted immediately to the top. In hindsight, this seems like perfectly reasonable logic and we should not be blamed for this.
But most importantly IMHO....
10. Most of the best of the PRIDE fighters at the time of PRIDE's closing were already past their days of glory, and a new level of skills was emerging AT THE SAME TIME. Silva had been champ for 6 years already, Herring had reached his peak long time ago, Nog is years late from being champ, Mirko likewise past his physical peak (he talked about retirement after the OWGP) and they probably were ready to start losing to younger fighters even if PRIDE has stayed.
MMA is an ever-evolving sport, and almost no fighter has been able to weather the tides for more than 1 or 2 eras. I believe for many years PRIDE fighters WERE the best in the world and the rankings may have been accurate. But nothing is constant, and it should have been seen as inevitable that once again the game would change; the old champions would die off and the new ones would once again bring the sport to a new level.
Y añado otros comentarios que han hecho
el ring es más pequeño lo q hace por cojones esten mas cerca
la puntuacion rollo boxeo hace q algunos luchadores ganen combates solo puntuando (rollo Liddell-Silva, ejemplo puesto por el forero)
Las tarjetas amarillas (penas economicas) favorecen la accion en el suelo
Hay luchadores q triunfan con unas reglas (Chute boxe en Pride) y otros con otras (Hughues, TQ, Miletich's en UFC) debido por ejemplo a los stomps/soccers/knees on 4 y otros con jaula+codos+ausencia rodillas en 4, soccers y stomps
Excesiva presencia de wrestlers y pocos especialistas en sumisión.
UFC has easier access to better wrestlers.UFC lacks international talent therefore, Judokas, BJJers, & Kickboxers.NSAC rules favor Wrestling.The Cage favors Wrestling
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