The first true poster boy of the UFC and 5-time defender of the Light Heavyweight Championship, Tito Ortiz, recently sat down for a long chat with Irish Whip Fighting. He discussed everything from his fight with Rashad, the rematch, boxing with Dana White, Fedor in the UFC, and more. An Interview By Ben Zeidler

Ben Zeidler: What is the biggest difference in the fight game now as opposed to when you were starting out?
Tito Ortiz: Well I think it's a lot more well-rounded now. You used to just have jiu-jitsu guys, just really good wrestlers and strikers. After a while, you started having a lot of better guys like: Frank Shamrock, Chuck Liddell, Guy Mezger. You know the boxing and kick-boxing, wrestling and having it all together. I think that's what fighters are doing now and showing what can happen.



BZ: Was Rashad tougher than you had expected? Were you impressed at all by his wrestling abilities?
TO: No, not really. He's exactly what I trained for. Well, his strength was a little less, I thought he'd be stronger but, he wasn't. As far as his quickness, I knew that he'd be that fast but, I got a few wrestlers to train with, Aaron Simpsons from Arizona State actually had the same speed as Rashad and so I was able to defend pretty well.

BZ: Is it tough training for a fight you already won?
TO: I don't think of it like that. Rashad knows who won; it's just a little icing on the cake. He pretty much was just running away the whole time.


BZ: You're getting into the habit of having to beat guys more than once. First, Shamrock and hopefully, Rashad next.
TO: Yeah, it looks like these guys don't listen the first time.

BZ: Did the draw for the Rashad fight come as a complete surprise to you or did you kind of sense that happening after the fence grabbing point deduction?
TO: You know at the time I thought it was a draw and I thought it was the right decision, but after watching it afterwards 5 or 6 times I think I should have won the first round. I dominated completely, the second round we tied, third round tied, I got a takedown in the beginning and he got one in the last 10 seconds. I think I might have won 1 of the 3 rounds.

BZ: Do you plan to change your game plan in your next fight against Rashad Evans or will it relatively similar?
TO: It's going to come down to wrestling and work on my striking. I mean, not too much to change really, you know be a little bit more aggressive. I know he's going to come in being in great shape.

BZ: Which way do you expect to finish Rashad the second time around? I'm assuming you won't let it go to a decision...
TO: (Laughs) Definitely not a decision! No way is it going in the judges hands. I see me knocking him out or submitting him in the second or third, maybe even the first. I'll impose my will on him whenever I want. Yeah let's hope so, I plan to try a lot of submissions, you know? Wrestlers make a lot of mistakes and don't learn to defend these submissions too well.

BZ: You'll have to catch him first.
TO: (Laughs) I know, right? I won't let him run away this time.


BZ: Who are you looking forward to fighting after Rashad? Is it still Shogun?
TO: Um yeah, that'll be awesome. Shogun, Wanderlei, you know any of the top guys. There's a lot of tops guys that I haven't gotten a chance to fight yet and I think I'd do good against. I've fought Wanderlei before and it was a good match up and I think the fans would love it.


BZ: How about a third bout against Liddell or a second against Randy? Are there any rematches that you really want?
TO: Yeah definitely, any of those are possibilities. I would love them, whatever I have to do to get the world title, that's what's going to have to happen.

BZ: Did you get a chance to see Frank Shamrock's last fight against Baroni? Were you impressed at all with his performance?
TO: Oh of course, I paid the PPV dollars to see that, it was a damn good fight, really good fight. I thought it was hilarious when Frank made a point that he was going to make Baroni go to sleep, I thought "Oh the old Frank is back," Frank showed that he's still a champ at heart.

BZ: How do you think a rematch would go down if you fought Frank today?
TO: You know to be honest with you, I don't think he'd last the second or third round. I think he'd get crushed. I'm too big for him, he's lighter, that would be a good one.

BZ: Since we're on the Shamrock topic, everyone saw you and Ken embrace each other after the last fight. Is the bad blood between you two over now?
TO: I would say the bad blood is over. I'm just pretty much going on with my career.

BZ: Is it true that you bet against Rampage in his rematch with Liddell?
TO: Um yeah, I actually did it was just a little gamble; it wasn't to say I wanted Rampage to lose or anything like that. I will spend the same amount of money again, it was exciting just for the fight, and he dominated very well and very quick and shocked the world. I'm glad he did that, he deserves the world title.

BZ: How did you see Liddell winning prior to the fight?
TO: Before the fight, I thought Liddell would be able to strike and stay away like usual. But I've never seen Liddell back up like that before and that's when I thought it was going to be a quick fight for him.

BZ: We know that you and Rampage are good friends. If you were offered the opportunity, and the money were right, would you fight him?
TO: You know, if that was my job I think me and Rampage would have to talk about it. Personally, I wouldn't like to fight him but if we were on a collision course, I'd sit down with Rampage and we would figure it out.

BZ: What's your prediction for Rampage's next fight with Hendo?
TO: You know, I think Rampage will have the chance to knock him out. He's a lot bigger than Hendo. Hendo would definitely need to work the clinch position to win, like Wanderlei and Shogun did. As a trainer and a fighter, I'd say this is where he needs to expose him.

BZ: Henderson's never been knocked out.
TO: Hendo is a tough, tough guy. But, I still think Rampage will have the chance to knock him out.

BZ: How do you respond to the critics that say you've spent too much time fighting an old Ken Shamrock?
TO: Well before the fight started I heard everyone say that Shamrock was going to kick my butt but after I dominated him three times, then everyone had to talk smack. I mean, I don't really listen to those guys; I'm going to finish my career how I want. I stopped him quicker than anyone else has done in the past.

BZ: You recently bought a house in Big Bear from De La hoya, have you ever trained with him or would you plan on it in the future?
TO: No, I never trained with him...not sure about in the future. My main thing is MMA, so there's a big difference between that and boxing. I purchased it as an investment, thank God I did though. I had a sponsor that was supposed to help me out but, they pulled out at the last minute. Thank God my girl Jenna said, "Why don't you buy it? You deserve it." And so, I took that choice and did it and I'm thankful, it was a great purchase and investment.

BZ: Sometimes you need the girl to come along and put everything in perspective.
TO: Definitely. Yeah, I came from a broke family and I work so hard for my money but sometimes it's hard for me to spend...but why not invest in land?

BZ: Who do you see as the "next big thing" in the light heavyweight division? And where do you rank yourself among the 205's?
TO: You know, of course Shogun, Rampage, Hendo, Chuck, myself, Arona, Sokoudjou, a lot of good light heavyweights. I'm still here, people say I'm washed up, I'm 32 years old, well you know what, people have bad fights and I'm going to compete for another 3 or 4 years. I'm not going anywhere soon. (Laughs) And Rashad, I'm going to crush his face.


BZ: You're not exactly a fan favorite with the Sherdoggers. Any comments on that?
TO: I always have fans that say Tito is fighting someone small again, you know all these laptop warriors, they make me lose my mind, makes me laugh. They've never trained a day in their life and they're all pros all of a sudden.

BZ: Can you give us your pick for "Best Fight of the First Half of 2007"?
TO: Um, Rampage knocking out Liddell, that was the best one ever. That's something that just, I don't know, that's what fights are made of, you never know who's going to win. That one and I'd say the Matt Serra one that made me go wild.

BZ: Yep, the Matt Serra one just floored me.
TO: I know man, I couldn't believe it. That's why they fight the fights.

BZ: Is your relationship with Dana White damaged enough where it could potentially lead to you signing with another organization or are you too loyal to the fans of the UFC?
TO: I'm very loyal to the fans of UFC, to the Fertittas. That's why I took a step back and two steps forward and I've been going straight to Lorenzo. Me and Dana don't get along well in business and I'm not going to be bullied. He's constantly saying that I'm a horrible fighter, a loser, and I suck.


BZ: I'd go as far as saying that your UFC 40 fight against Shamrock was the number one turning point in the success of the UFC.
TO: You know, I've been doing this stuff for 10 years now, I've been putting my butt on the line for 10 years! I've been doing so damn much, I guarantee if you looked up which UFC fighter has made the most money, I guarantee it'll be me. Me and Liddell got over a million PPV buys, 1.3 million, those are astonishing numbers. They promote their greatest fighters and I'm a great fighter and Liddell's a great fighter.

BZ: How about the boxing match with Dana? What happened there?
TO: You know what, as of right now I'm really not thinking of that at all. I'd love for it to happen but I don't think it'll happen. He used it to become a superstar, to have that Dana White special and downplay me to make me look bad on television. He said sorry and goes on national radio and said how much of a moron me and Jenna are. I don't see how he is president of a multi million dollar company, that's why I'm working with Lorenzo now.

BZ: Who do you think is at fault for Fedor not yet being in the UFC? Dana or Fedor?
TO: Dana! Definitely Dana! Plain and simple. I know Fedor's management asked for a specific amount of money and Dana said something like, he's not popular enough in the States and Dana said no way and didn't show him any respect.

BZ: In your eyes, who is the greatest fighter of all time? Is it Fedor?
TO: Randy Couture, hands down.


BZ: I just got done watching UFC 68 and every time he throws that first punch, I can't believe it. It's incredible.
TO: You know, in UFC 68, he dominated. He threw punches with no fear and won that fight.

BZ: Having fought Griffin before, how do you think he will match-up against Shogun when they meet?
TO: I hope he beats Shogun, I think it would be awesome; I'd laugh my ass off. I really think he has the tools to do it you know; he has Couture in his corner. I'd love to see that. Shogun's weakness is wrestling and I think Griffin can expose that. We all know Shogun will be coming in with great strikes and jiu-jitsu.

BZ: Obviously, the steroid issue has been a hot topic as of late. Why are all these guys stupid enough to take steroids if they know they can get caught?
TO: Yeah, right? Well, I think, why would they even take the chance? I don't know, I ask myself that. I've heard a couple interviews, if Sherk says he didn't do it, I believe him. I know he's doing a lot of vitamins and I know that stuff may have something to do with it. I'm not 100% sure what those things test as positive.

BZ: What's next after fighting, are you just looking to place all your focus on your girlfriend Jenna and your clothing line Team Punishment?
TO: Yeah well, Team Punishment and Punishment Athletics and the fight team are two different things you know, www.punishment.com check it out. I started it just as a fan asking for Tito Ortiz T-shirt and my brother said, "Man, you punished that guy!" and I said, "What did you say?" and I was, "Hmm, wow." So, I put it on my website and now it's a multi-million dollar company and everything is my idea, my design. We started getting lots of clothing, T-shirts, jackets, sweaters, and beanies, pretty much everything.

BZ: How about those shirts you wear after events? I want the one that says "I killed Kenny! You bastard!" I think you wore that after the first fight with Shamrock?
TO: Yep, you can get that right on the site too.


BZ: I heard from MMA Weekly that dress clothes are the next thing for you guys. Any comments on that?
TO: Dress clothes is the next step now on www.punishment.com, just punishment, now we're doing the dress up stuff for dinners, clubs, button-downs, Levis, fitted shirts.


BZ: I think that's it for now. Thanks for taking the time Tito. We really appreciate it.
TO: No problem, have a good one.